Nashville v. Colorado

[Deleted]

Nashville Predators

Other than two players on my entire team, everyone is 30 or under. I may not have the best roster year one, but I without a doubt have a roster that will outlast anyone's for years to come. In sim leagues, this is my preferred way to build a contender and I think my team is second to none when it comes to longevity. With the randomness of the sim I'd rather have 5-7 years of a being a top 5 team than 2-3 years of being a top 3 team. This gives me a big edge towards other teams that is just unmatched.

My first pick came down to grabbing a top line center under 25. Monahan has averaged 62pts over the last four seasons and is one of the most consistent players in the league at both ends of the ice. With the additions of Neal and Lindholm, Monahan will have wingers like he's never seen before. This should boost his production as he enters his prime. My second pick I wanted a top line winger under 25, so it was easy to grab a guy like Filip Forsberg. He's also averaged 62pts the last 4 years and will only continue to improve his game. With forwards like Monahan, Forsberg, Zibanejad, Toffoli and Tierney who still have room to grow despite being NHL players already, this gives me a massive advantage. Top it all off with guys in their prime like JVR, Little, Frolik, Killorn and Comeau, plus veterans like Marleau and Steen, I feel like my forward depth is unmatched by anyone in the league.

Then we go to the backend with Brodie, Lindholm, Skjei, Muzzin, Scandella and Del Zotto. Every single one of them averaged 21 minutes or higher last year in the NHL and all six averaged 29pts. They're also ALL under 30 years old. To get this kind of talent on defense at this age is unreal. No one else in this league can say they have 6 top four defensemen all under 30.

Last but not least I have a very consistent (career average .918 SV%) high end goalie on a team that just keeps getting better and better, and a backup goalie that could end up being a starter on a rising Buffalo team.

Put it all together and there is no other team in this league that can steadily compete for as long as my team can.

Forsberg - Monahan - van Riemsdyk
Steen - Zibanejad - Toffoli
Marleau - Little - Killorn
Comeau - Tierney - Frolik

Brodie - Lindholm
Skjei - Muzzin
Scandella - Del Zotto

Andersen
Hutton

Colorado Avalanche

We can squabble about the benefits of drafting for the future or for the present, or about the relative value of individual picks, but I think the most important thing to do is to set out a vision and execute it. Having taken part in two beginning of league drafts prior to this one, I have learned my lessons: don’t go too old or your window may close before you win (Buffalo in the original Bardown draft) and don’t ignore prospects in favour of having an over-abundance of NHL players, because you may be unable to trade them for prospects later (Anaheim in the original Top Shelf, where I had Toby Enstrom of 2015 as an 8th defenceman and my best drafted prospect was Morgan Klimchuk). I wanted a team in their prime, that could be competitive for more than 3 years and I wanted to come away with some decent young players and prospects to ensure continued success.

Forwards:
I’d be willing to put the trio of Kopitar-Backstrom-Krejci against any top 3 centers in the league and come away comfortable that I have the best depth down the middle. While I do not have a standout all-star on the wing all, are very capable of producing more than enough offense. We have 8 forwards with an SC of at least 80, with three centers with a PA of at least 84 to dish the puck out, so scoring should not be an issue. It also helps that none of these guys are defensive liabilities either (no top 9 forward has a DF lower than 86). 2/3rds of our 4th line is made up of Richard Panik and Sven Baertschi, are 27 and 25 respectively and both produced enough offence to conceivably get roles in the top 6 with their respective NHL clubs. No forward is older than 32 and the average of the group is only 28.7 years old.

Defense:
This group does not feature any all-stars, but, 1-6 is a very solid group that can provide the type of play that a Stanley Cup contender expects from a D-Corps. Krug was one of the most value picks (146th overall), as only 5 defenseman have a higher combined PA and SC score than Krug’s 168. The remaining 3 defenceman in the top 4 (Trouba, Spurgeon and Edler) combined for 18 goals and 95 points in only 186 games (which prorated to 8 goals and 43 points each if they had played 82 games). None of the four have a DF lower than 94. Add in Chris Tanev as a defensive specialist to support the top four on the PK and you’ve quite a unit. No defenseman is older than 32 and the average age is 27. 2 years old.

Goaltenders:
At only 24 years old at the conclusion of last year’s NHL season, Gibson already has 93 career wins a career 2.29 GAA and .923SPCT. He will be ably backed up by the team’s oldest veteran, 33 year old Corey Crawford, who is coming off a brilliant, if injury shortened season, in which he recorded a 2.27 GAA and a .929 SPCT. Once again trying to build down the middle, I think I may have the best goaltending tandem in the league.

Prospects:
While not elite level prospects, we feel that in Dillon Dube and Colton Point, we got two B+ prospects with the potential to be special, relatively late in the draft. Point shows up on many top-10 NHL goalie prospect lists, often ahead his more high-profile future teammate Jake Oettinger (who was picked 8 round earlier) and with a 1.74GAA and .944SPCT in the NCAA, it’s not hard to see why. Dillon Dube is an undersized dynamo of a forward, who captained Canada to WJC gold all the while recording 205 point in 158 games in his last three WHL seasons. He will soon join a young Flames team on the rise.

[Edmonton Oilers]

I feel like this will be a landslide, which is a shame, because Nashville has built a fantastic team too.

[Deleted]

I do really like Nashville's roster, but honestly, the only advantage I can see in their roster is that their elite players are younger then mine. And that could be a problem if my roster was particularly old, but my 18 roster players' average age is 28.27, compared to Nashville's 20 man roster with an average age of 28.2 (granted, Marleau and Steen sort of wrecks his team average age).

I feel I am stronger (and younger) in net. His centremen are younger, but are no match for mine in terms of ability. I'd say our defense is comparable, he is a little younger, but I feel as though I have the advantage in ratings and ability without being "old". I'll concede that he has me beat on the wings for ability and that I have no match for Forsberg, but two of his top 5 wingers are 34+ years old and will face a rapid decline.

I also feel that I drafted more wisely, grabbing a few prospects before rounding up my bottom defense pairing and 4th line, knowing that there would be plenty of comparable talent available later given how many teams were drafting young. I got two quality prospects in the late teen rounds and still ended up with very good bottom of roster players outside the first 20 rounds.

I am obviously biased here, but I just don't see how his team could beat mine in this poll.

[Nashville Predators]

Aug 28, 2018 8:27:30 GMT -5 @atrain24 said:

I do really like Nashville's roster, but honestly, the only advantage I can see in their roster is that their elite players are younger then mine. And that could be a problem if my roster was particularly old, but my 18 roster players' average age is 28.27, compared to Nashville's 20 man roster with an average age of 28.2 (granted, Marleau and Steen sort of wrecks his team average age).

I feel I am stronger (and younger) in net. His centremen are younger, but are no match for mine in terms of ability. I'd say our defense is comparable, he is a little younger, but I feel as though I have the advantage in ratings and ability without being "old". I'll concede that he has me beat on the wings for ability and that I have no match for Forsberg, but two of his top 5 wingers are 34+ years old and will face a rapid decline.

I also feel that I drafted more wisely, grabbing a few prospects before rounding up my bottom defense pairing and 4th line, knowing that there would be plenty of comparable talent available later given how many teams were drafting young. I got two quality prospects in the late teen rounds and still ended up with very good bottom of roster players outside the first 20 rounds.

I am obviously biased here, but I just don't see how his team could beat mine in this poll.

Like I said in my defense, you 100% have the better team for the next 2-3 years, but there is not a single team in this league that matches me for contending longevity. Your three centres' average age is 31.3, mine is 26, I think that's a massive difference. Yours will decline heavily in 2-3 years where as mine will be in the their prime. As for wingers, you should correctly say that 2 out of ALL my wingers are 34 and 38. 2 out of top 5 makes it sound much worse

Bottom pairing defense plays 15-20 minutes a game and are key to a top end team. The fact you waited on Dmen to grab Dube, who is not a bad prospect, but he is nothing special and Point, who again is not bad but goalies are almost impossible to predict. I'd much rather have Scandella and Del Zotto on my bottom pair than your two.

Ultimately it comes down to one thing, do you want to compete for 2-3 years, or 5-7? I think the choice is obvious.

[Deleted]

Aug 28, 2018 8:44:57 GMT -5 Nashville Predators said:

Aug 28, 2018 8:27:30 GMT -5 @atrain24 said:

I do really like Nashville's roster, but honestly, the only advantage I can see in their roster is that their elite players are younger then mine. And that could be a problem if my roster was particularly old, but my 18 roster players' average age is 28.27, compared to Nashville's 20 man roster with an average age of 28.2 (granted, Marleau and Steen sort of wrecks his team average age).

I feel I am stronger (and younger) in net. His centremen are younger, but are no match for mine in terms of ability. I'd say our defense is comparable, he is a little younger, but I feel as though I have the advantage in ratings and ability without being "old". I'll concede that he has me beat on the wings for ability and that I have no match for Forsberg, but two of his top 5 wingers are 34+ years old and will face a rapid decline.

I also feel that I drafted more wisely, grabbing a few prospects before rounding up my bottom defense pairing and 4th line, knowing that there would be plenty of comparable talent available later given how many teams were drafting young. I got two quality prospects in the late teen rounds and still ended up with very good bottom of roster players outside the first 20 rounds.

I am obviously biased here, but I just don't see how his team could beat mine in this poll.

Like I said in my defense, you 100% have the better team for the next 2-3 years, but there is not a single team in this league that matches me for contending longevity. Your three centres' average age is 31.3, mine is 26, I think that's a massive difference. Yours will decline heavily in 2-3 years where as mine will be in the their prime. As for wingers, you should correctly say that 2 out of ALL my wingers are 34 and 38. 2 out of top 5 makes it sound much worse

Bottom pairing defense plays 15-20 minutes a game and are key to a top end team. The fact you waited on Dmen to grab Dube, who is not a bad prospect, but he is nothing special and Point, who again is not bad but goalies are almost impossible to predict. I'd much rather have Scandella and Del Zotto on my bottom pair than your two.

Ultimately it comes down to one thing, do you want to compete for 2-3 years, or 5-7? I think the choice is obvious.

Obviously, we each like our own team, but come on... age is not everything.

Your second line center may be younger then mine, but he's never scored more than 51 points in a season.  With a sample size of over 400 NHL games across more-or-less 6 seasons, I think it's fair to say that, at this point, he is what he is.  Would you rather have Backstrom, who's never scored less than 65 points in a full season in 11 years for another 4-5 years (elite skaters like him usually see their decline later than normal) or Zibanejad producing 45-55 points per season for another 8-9 years?  Bottom line is right now, if I offered you Backstrom straight up for Zibanejad, do you say yes or no?  Like you said, I think the choice is obvious. 

As for the wingers, yes, two of eight are 34 and 38... but are they not also two of your top 5?  I thought so, so I said so, in the infamous words of Tim Thomas, I'm not here to pump your tires.

You are right, bottom pairing does play 15-18* minutes a game (if your bottom pairing plays 20 minutes a game, then you are not distributing minutes properly), thankfully, I've got Tanev (19:47 per game last year) and Staal (18:32 per game last year), both of whom have superior DF ratings to Del Zotto and Scandella, so my top guys don't need to be out there on the PK as much as yours will.  So yes, you are right the bottom pairing defense is important, and yes, yours is marginally better than mine, but my point was that waiting a few extra rounds and grabbing some superior prospects didn't really hurt the quality of my bottom pairing.

As you said, ultimately, do you want to compete for 3-5 years (Minnesota has a roster to compete for 2-3 years) or be stuck in the Avalanche's shadow for 3-4 years and then compete for 2-3 years

[Nashville Predators]

Aug 28, 2018 9:10:37 GMT -5 @atrain24 said:

Aug 28, 2018 8:44:57 GMT -5 Nashville Predators said:

Like I said in my defense, you 100% have the better team for the next 2-3 years, but there is not a single team in this league that matches me for contending longevity. Your three centres' average age is 31.3, mine is 26, I think that's a massive difference. Yours will decline heavily in 2-3 years where as mine will be in the their prime. As for wingers, you should correctly say that 2 out of ALL my wingers are 34 and 38. 2 out of top 5 makes it sound much worse

Bottom pairing defense plays 15-20 minutes a game and are key to a top end team. The fact you waited on Dmen to grab Dube, who is not a bad prospect, but he is nothing special and Point, who again is not bad but goalies are almost impossible to predict. I'd much rather have Scandella and Del Zotto on my bottom pair than your two.

Ultimately it comes down to one thing, do you want to compete for 2-3 years, or 5-7? I think the choice is obvious.

Obviously, we each like our own team, but come on... age is not everything.

Your second line center may be younger then mine, but he's never scored more than 51 points in a season.  With a sample size of over 400 NHL games across more-or-less 6 seasons, I think it's fair to say that, at this point, he is what he is.  Would you rather have Backstrom, who's never scored less than 65 points in a full season in 11 years for another 4-5 years (elite skaters like him usually see their decline later than normal) or Zibanejad producing 45-55 points per season for another 8-9 years?  Bottom line is right now, if I offered you Backstrom straight up for Zibanejad, do you say yes or no?  Like you said, I think the choice is obvious. 

As for the wingers, yes, two of eight are 34 and 38... but are they not also two of your top 5?  I thought so, so I said so, in the infamous words of Tim Thomas, I'm not here to pump your tires.

You are right, bottom pairing does play 15-18* minutes a game (if your bottom pairing plays 20 minutes a game, then you are not distributing minutes properly), thankfully, I've got Tanev (19:47 per game last year) and Staal (18:32 per game last year), both of whom have superior DF ratings to Del Zotto and Scandella, so my top guys don't need to be out there on the PK as much as yours will.  So yes, you are right the bottom pairing defense is important, and yes, yours is marginally better than mine, but my point was that waiting a few extra rounds and grabbing some superior prospects didn't really hurt the quality of my bottom pairing.

As you said, ultimately, do you want to compete for 3-5 years (Minnesota has a roster to compete for 2-3 years) or be stuck in the Avalanche's shadow for 3-4 years and then compete for 2-3 years

I have no doubt in my mind everyone will choose Kopitar+Backstrom over Monahan+Zibanejad that is not the argument. The argument is having a balanced roster that can compete for double the length of yours.

They definitely are two of my top 5, but you so eagerly framed it in a way as if i only had 5 good wingers

In my opinion you waiting on defensemen to pick up two average prospects at best hurt your overall depth.

Avalanche's shadow or right alongside them? Our teams are extremely similar with you beating me in some areas and me beating you in some areas. I can't wait to face you in the playoffs, it will be fun crushing some hopes and dreams over the next few years

[Deleted]

Aug 28, 2018 9:22:25 GMT -5 Nashville Predators said:

I have no doubt in my mind everyone will choose Kopitar+Backstrom over Monahan+Zibanejad that is not the argument. The argument is having a balanced roster that can compete for double the length of yours.

That may be the argument, but I don't see that your roster does compete for double the length of mine.

My top 9 forwards are all between the ages of 27 and 32, and in Panik and Beartschi I have a 27 and a 25 year old who can grow into top 9 roles as the older ones drop off. Yes you have Monahan and Forsberg who are elite and young, but the rest of your top 9 forwards are the same age as mine if not older. On average my top 9 is 29.3 years old and yours is 28.55, but when the Marleaus and the Steens knock off, which will be long before any of my top 9 forwards do, you have 24-year oldd Tierny bumping up and who else? 32 year old Comeau or 30 year old Frolik?

Your top two forwards will be elite for longer than mine, no doubt, but right here right now, the rest of your forward crop is older, will drop off before mine does and in 5 years as you put it, only two of your forwards will be younger than 30 years old. How can you possibly decide that, outside of Forsberg and Monahan, your roster will be significantly better than mine by then? It may well be, it will depend on our drafting and trading, but that's not a claim you can make today.

Again on defence, you have 6 good defenceman below thirty, but in 5 years, only two of them will be younger than 33, you'll have a 30 year old Lindholm and a 30 year old Skjei. I'll have the same amount of defenseman under the age of 33 in 30 year old Trouba and 32 year old Krug. Again, your defence core may very well be better in 5 years, but that's not really a claim that you can make today.

In goal in 5 years, I'll have a 29 year old Gibson and maybe Colton Point, if he develops and you'll have a 33 year old Andersen.

You seem to hinging your entire argument on the fact that in 5 years, your team will be better than mine because it is marginally younger today and I just don't think you can responsibly claim that right now.

[Nashville Predators]

Aug 28, 2018 9:55:58 GMT -5 @atrain24 said:

Aug 28, 2018 9:22:25 GMT -5 Nashville Predators said:

I have no doubt in my mind everyone will choose Kopitar+Backstrom over Monahan+Zibanejad that is not the argument. The argument is having a balanced roster that can compete for double the length of yours.

That may be the argument, but I don't see that your roster does compete for double the length of mine.

My top 9 forwards are all between the ages of 27 and 32, and in Panik and Beartschi I have a 27 and a 25 year old who can grow into top 9 roles as the older ones drop off. Yes you have Monahan and Forsberg or are elite and young, but the rest of your top 9 forwards are the same age as mine if not older. On average my top 9 is 29.3 years old and yours is 28.55, but when the Marleaus and the Steens knock off, which will be long before any of my top 9 forwards do, you have 24-year oldd Tierny bumping up and who else? 32 year old Comeau or 30 year old Frolik?

Your top two forwards will be elite for longer than mine, no doubt, but right here right now, the rest of your forward crop is older, will drop off before mine does and in 5 years as you put it, only two of your forwards will be younger than 30 years old. How can you possibly decide that, outside of Forsberg and Monahan, your roster will be significantly better than mine by then? It may well be, it will depend on our drafting and trading, but that's not a claim you can make today.

Again on defence, you have 6 good defenceman below thirty, but in 5 years, only two of them will be younger than 33, you'll have a 30 year old Lindholm and a 30 year old Skjei. I'll have the same amount of defenseman under the age of 33 in 30 year old Trouba and 32 year old Krug. Again, your defence core may very well be better in 5 years, but that's not really a claim that you can make today.

In goal in 5 years, I'll have a 29 year old Gibson and maybe Colton Point, if he develops and you'll have a 33 year old Andersen.

You seem to hinging your entire argument on the fact that in 5 years, your team will be better than mine because it is marginally younger today and I just don't think you can responsibly claim that right now.

Think you're greatly undervaluing Toffoli here, I think he's got the potential to be a 60-70pt guy in his prime and is only 25. Marleau has two years left on contract with Toronto which gives me three Sim years with him. Steen's game has never been about speed and will continue to be a middle six forward for another 3ish years as well.

In three years your entire team outside of Gibson and Trouba will be on the wrong side of 30 and in steady decline.

My argument is that my core is much younger than yours, and my overall depth is just as good. Monahan, Forsberg, Lindholm, Skjei, Zibanejad, Toffoli and Brodie are all 23-27. Your only guys that are relevant in that range are Gibson and Trouba.

[Chicago Blackhawks]

#NoComeau

[New Jersey Devils]

Aug 28, 2018 10:17:17 GMT -5 Chicago Blackhawks said:

#NoComeau

Kyle hit his head on that pick but I do like the rest of his roster.

I think Andre wins the first 5 picks but I give the edge to Kyle on the last 15

[Deleted]

Aug 28, 2018 10:12:00 GMT -5 Nashville Predators said:

Aug 28, 2018 9:55:58 GMT -5 @atrain24 said:

That may be the argument, but I don't see that your roster does compete for double the length of mine.

My top 9 forwards are all between the ages of 27 and 32, and in Panik and Beartschi I have a 27 and a 25 year old who can grow into top 9 roles as the older ones drop off. Yes you have Monahan and Forsberg or are elite and young, but the rest of your top 9 forwards are the same age as mine if not older. On average my top 9 is 29.3 years old and yours is 28.55, but when the Marleaus and the Steens knock off, which will be long before any of my top 9 forwards do, you have 24-year oldd Tierny bumping up and who else? 32 year old Comeau or 30 year old Frolik?

Your top two forwards will be elite for longer than mine, no doubt, but right here right now, the rest of your forward crop is older, will drop off before mine does and in 5 years as you put it, only two of your forwards will be younger than 30 years old. How can you possibly decide that, outside of Forsberg and Monahan, your roster will be significantly better than mine by then? It may well be, it will depend on our drafting and trading, but that's not a claim you can make today.

Again on defence, you have 6 good defenceman below thirty, but in 5 years, only two of them will be younger than 33, you'll have a 30 year old Lindholm and a 30 year old Skjei. I'll have the same amount of defenseman under the age of 33 in 30 year old Trouba and 32 year old Krug. Again, your defence core may very well be better in 5 years, but that's not really a claim that you can make today.

In goal in 5 years, I'll have a 29 year old Gibson and maybe Colton Point, if he develops and you'll have a 33 year old Andersen.

You seem to hinging your entire argument on the fact that in 5 years, your team will be better than mine because it is marginally younger today and I just don't think you can responsibly claim that right now.

Think you're greatly undervaluing Toffoli here, I think he's got the potential to be a 60-70pt guy in his prime and is only 25. Marleau has two years left on contract with Toronto which gives me three Sim years with him. Steen's game has never been about speed and will continue to be a middle six forward for another 3ish years as well.

In three years your entire team outside of Gibson and Trouba will be on the wrong side of 30 and in steady decline.

My argument is that my core is much younger than yours, and my overall depth is just as good. Monahan, Forsberg, Lindholm, Skjei, Zibanejad, Toffoli and Brodie are all 23-27. Your only guys that are relevant in that range are Gibson and Trouba.

Toffoli might be, but he has had 5 full NHL seasons and only one 30+ goal, 50+ point season.  Players don`t automatically continue to improve until the reach a certain age then start regressing.  There is really no evidence to suggest he is still trending upwards.  He is very much in the same boat as Zibanejad.  These guys are not young, developing prospects anymore.  They have been given ample opportunities to become top-line players and have not done so yet.  They are good, I am not saying the opposite.  All I'm saying is that, at this point, guys like Toffoli and Zibanejad are no more likely then guys like Hoffman or Atkinson to find that other gear just because they are a couple of years younger.

I didn't say you couldn't get more productive years from Marleau and Steen, I said they would drop off before my guys will.  Kopitar is my second oldest forward at 31 years old, only Krejci at 32 is older than he is.  Both of those guys will be much more productive over the next5 years as Marleau and Steen will be.  I think you think my team is older then they actually are. 

I also have Reilly Smith and Torey Krug who are 27... and from your list, Brodie is 28, not 27. 

But it doesn't matter where you draw the line, because we are arguing in circles.  Yes your roster is slightly younger then mine is, this is an established fact, but my roster is not *that much older then yours is.  And yes, your top two forwards still have many peak years left, but just because guys like Toffoli and Zibanejad are younger, doesn't mean they will continue to improve.   

[Nashville Predators]

Aug 28, 2018 11:07:27 GMT -5 @atrain24 said:

Aug 28, 2018 10:12:00 GMT -5 Nashville Predators said:

Think you're greatly undervaluing Toffoli here, I think he's got the potential to be a 60-70pt guy in his prime and is only 25. Marleau has two years left on contract with Toronto which gives me three Sim years with him. Steen's game has never been about speed and will continue to be a middle six forward for another 3ish years as well.

In three years your entire team outside of Gibson and Trouba will be on the wrong side of 30 and in steady decline.

My argument is that my core is much younger than yours, and my overall depth is just as good. Monahan, Forsberg, Lindholm, Skjei, Zibanejad, Toffoli and Brodie are all 23-27. Your only guys that are relevant in that range are Gibson and Trouba.

Toffoli might be, but he has had 5 full NHL seasons and only one 30+ goal, 50+ point season.  Players don`t automatically continue to improve until the reach a certain age then start regressing.  There is really no evidence to suggest he is still trending upwards.  He is very much in the same boat as Zibanejad.  These guys are not young, developing prospects anymore.  They have been given ample opportunities to become top-line players and have not done so yet.  They are good, I am not saying the opposite.  All I'm saying is that, at this point, guys like Toffoli and Zibanejad are no more likely then guys like Hoffman or Atkinson to find that other gear just because they are a couple of years younger.

I didn't say you couldn't get more productive years from Marleau and Steen, I said they would drop off before my guys will.  Kopitar is my second oldest forward at 31 years old, only Krejci at 32 is older than he is.  Both of those guys will be much more productive over the next5 years as Marleau and Steen will be.  I think you think my team is older then they actually are. 

I also have Reilly Smith and Torey Krug who are 27... and from your list, Brodie is 28, not 27. 

But it doesn't matter where you draw the line, because we are arguing in circles.  Yes your roster is slightly younger then mine is, this is an established fact, but my roster is not *that much older then yours is.  And yes, your top two forwards still have many peak years left, but just because guys like Toffoli and Zibanejad are younger, doesn't mean they will continue to improve.   

A players prime is generally 26-29, this is definitely a general statement and of course players don't automatically improve... however generally that age range is their best years. Seeing as a lot of my guys are either in that range or are almost in that range, I would take my depth over yours any day of the week.

I just don't see how this can be in your favour, you have a great team but mine is practically just as great with young guys that I believe have another level. But what do I know really lol.

Either way pretty happy to get into the final four and of course we can argue until our fingers go numb but I'll always give my team the slight edge as you would give it to yours.

[Toronto Maple Leafs]

Went with the guy that sucks ass at Fortnite and should just stick to Pokemon Go.

[Nashville Predators]

Aug 28, 2018 12:20:09 GMT -5 Toronto Maple Leafs said:

Went with the guy that sucks ass at Fortnite and should just stick to Pokemon Go.

Good thing I'm elite at fortnite

[Calgary Flames]

*pulls up a chair and makes some popcorn before reading*

[Deleted]

Aug 28, 2018 12:15:10 GMT -5 Nashville Predators said:

Aug 28, 2018 11:07:27 GMT -5 @atrain24 said:

Toffoli might be, but he has had 5 full NHL seasons and only one 30+ goal, 50+ point season.  Players don`t automatically continue to improve until the reach a certain age then start regressing.  There is really no evidence to suggest he is still trending upwards.  He is very much in the same boat as Zibanejad.  These guys are not young, developing prospects anymore.  They have been given ample opportunities to become top-line players and have not done so yet.  They are good, I am not saying the opposite.  All I'm saying is that, at this point, guys like Toffoli and Zibanejad are no more likely then guys like Hoffman or Atkinson to find that other gear just because they are a couple of years younger.

I didn't say you couldn't get more productive years from Marleau and Steen, I said they would drop off before my guys will.  Kopitar is my second oldest forward at 31 years old, only Krejci at 32 is older than he is.  Both of those guys will be much more productive over the next5 years as Marleau and Steen will be.  I think you think my team is older then they actually are. 

I also have Reilly Smith and Torey Krug who are 27... and from your list, Brodie is 28, not 27. 

But it doesn't matter where you draw the line, because we are arguing in circles.  Yes your roster is slightly younger then mine is, this is an established fact, but my roster is not *that much older then yours is.  And yes, your top two forwards still have many peak years left, but just because guys like Toffoli and Zibanejad are younger, doesn't mean they will continue to improve.   

A players prime is generally 26-29, this is definitely a general statement and of course players don't automatically improve... however generally that age range is their best years. Seeing as a lot of my guys are either in that range or are almost in that range, I would take my depth over yours any day of the week.

I just don't see how this can be in your favour, you have a great team but mine is practically just as great with young guys that I believe have another level. But what do I know really lol.

Either way pretty happy to get into the final four and of course we can argue until our fingers go numb but I'll always give my team the slight edge as you would give it to yours.

I really should be doing work and I don't want to argue until the polls closes at midnight tomorrow, but while you are correct that a player's physical prime is generally 26-29, players do not continually improve up until that point and/or through those years. 

While players generally improve up to their prime years, not all players do, at some point you just stop improving because you've reached your potential.  Players plateau, and it could at 24 just as easily as it can be at 30. Since players generally start playing in the NHL much earlier then they used to, the point at which a player plateaus is also much earlier. At a certain point, we, and, more importantly, NHL organizations, have enough experience with a player that they more-or-less know what that player is. 

Look at Mika Zibanejad.  He has been a 1b/2 center since 2014/15 when he was with the Sens.  He's had guys like Turris and Stepan ahead of, not elite #1 centers who were blocking him from becoming a number 1 center.  He has had opportunities.  He had steady improvement in production in his first 4 seasons, going from .5ppg in half a season, to 0.48 in a full season, to .58 in season 3 and 0.63 in season 4.  But then he plateaued at that level.  He's now had 3 consecutive seasons of 0.63-0.66-0.65 ppg.  The fact that he is "only" 25 might mean he has not reached his "prime" yet, but that does not mean that he will continue to improve.  You can argue that he will continue to improve because he has not reached his prime years, and that's ok, but I will point out his stalled development and argue that he has reached his plateau as a player even if he has not reached his "prime" yeat.

[New Jersey Devils]

There is so much piss everywhere

[Nashville Predators]

Aug 28, 2018 13:30:31 GMT -5 @atrain24 said:

Aug 28, 2018 12:15:10 GMT -5 Nashville Predators said:

A players prime is generally 26-29, this is definitely a general statement and of course players don't automatically improve... however generally that age range is their best years. Seeing as a lot of my guys are either in that range or are almost in that range, I would take my depth over yours any day of the week.

I just don't see how this can be in your favour, you have a great team but mine is practically just as great with young guys that I believe have another level. But what do I know really lol.

Either way pretty happy to get into the final four and of course we can argue until our fingers go numb but I'll always give my team the slight edge as you would give it to yours.

I really should be doing work and I don't want to argue until the polls closes at midnight tomorrow, but while you are correct that a player's physical prime is generally 26-29, players do not continually improve up until that point and/or through those years. 

While players generally improve up to their prime years, not all players do, at some point you just stop improving because you've reached your potential.  Players plateau, and it could at 24 just as easily as it can be at 30. Since players generally start playing in the NHL much earlier then they used to, the point at which a player plateaus is also much earlier. At a certain point, we, and, more importantly, NHL organizations, have enough experience with a player that they more-or-less know what that player is. 

Look at Mika Zibanejad.  He has been a 1b/2 center since 2014/15 when he was with the Sens.  He's had guys like Turris and Stepan ahead of, not elite #1 centers who were blocking him from becoming a number 1 center.  He has had opportunities.  He had steady improvement in production in his first 4 seasons, going from .5ppg in half a season, to 0.48 in a full season, to .58 in season 3 and 0.63 in season 4.  But then he plateaued at that level.  He's now had 3 consecutive seasons of 0.63-0.66-0.65 ppg.  The fact that he is "only" 25 might mean he has not reached his "prime" yet, but that does not mean that he will continue to improve.  You can argue that he will continue to improve because he has not reached his prime years, and that's ok, but I will point out his stalled development and argue that he has reached his plateau as a player even if he has not reached his "prime" yeat.

I would formulate a response but we literally keep saying the exact same thing to each other over and over and I really need to get some work done today lol...

[Deleted]

Aug 28, 2018 13:39:19 GMT -5 New Jersey Devils said:

There is so much piss everywhere

Hey, it's the first time I've been in a competitive vote and had a chance to debate, don't take this away from me...

At this point it's not even about our two rosters any more, just an interesting (at least to me) debate on forecasting future performance.

[Deleted]

Congrats to Nashville on advancing to the final round.